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Hiei

How every Terran feels whenever a new patch is announced

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Built 21 infestors, didn't win the game. Terran must be OP.

Must have move commanded them into a PF. Only explanation.

this ^

Probably not possible to lose a game when you have that many infestors.

I remember a game where destiny played dragon. He made a ton of infestors of course and dragon was actually playing quite well. While cost inefficiently losing his army 20x, over that game you got to see him try and use almost every Terran tech option to beat a mass infestor composition. Ravens used seeker missile, mech was overrun with zerglings and neural parasite, ghosts using EMP had no effect. It was so discouraging, especially since it was at a time where I wanted to break my keyboard every time I played TvZ

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this ^

Probably not possible to lose a game when you have that many infestors.

I remember a game where destiny played dragon. He made a ton of infestors of course and dragon was actually playing quite well. While cost inefficiently losing his army 20x, over that game you got to see him try and use almost every Terran tech option to beat a mass infestor composition. Ravens used seeker missile, mech was overrun with zerglings and neural parasite, ghosts using EMP had no effect. It was so discouraging, especially since it was at a time where I wanted to break my keyboard every time I played TvZ

Funny, for me that time is every single TvZ lol

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How about last patch?

It's better for sure, now you're not just trading units for energy

 

 

Everyone rolls eyes, Terrans are happy about being imba again. The cycle repeats itself.

Terran is far from imba

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It's better for sure, now you're not just trading units for energy

 

 

Terran is far from imba

That medivac buff in HotS though...

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Exactly, the medivac buff is what I am talking about. If that's not OP, I don't know what it.

 

Surely, Medivac needed that buff, from being mere Dropship & HEALER to even faster Dropship and Healer, right?

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That medivac buff in HotS though...

 

1. Conduscious Reactor has literally NEVER been researched in WoL, Blizzard is trying to find ways that justify it's existance.

2. I'm not referring to HoTS balance, only WoL.

3. It's a beta for a reason

4. The patch has only been out for like, a week. Calm thy jimmies.

 

 

Exactly, the medivac buff is what I am talking about. If that's not OP, I don't know what it.

 

Surely, Medivac needed that buff, from being mere Dropship & HEALER to even faster Dropship and Healer, right?

 

I suppose I'll try and rationalize Blizzards thinking:

 

I've experimented with the new medivacs quiet a bit. The changes are obviously strong, I haven't worked out the actual math on it, but end game, Terran really should get the upgrade, but that's when terran has like 25% win rate vs Protoss, after 20 minutes, in the end game. It could be to strong early on though, I haven't really experimented with conducious timings, but that could easily be fixed (Conducious reactor requires an armory, or something like that).

 

As far as the speed upgrade goes, I don't think that it's broken at all. The 2 main purposes of the booster, is getting to drop, and getting away. Most decent protoss have static defense set up, or units waiting for drop timings, and going into the mid game, drops are a little more less common, also devoting an HT and 2 cannons to each base shuts it down pretty well. I think the idea is to give terran something that they can actually kind of return home with if they lose a fight in the end game, to maybe be able to come back. I've seen (and experienced) way to often, where the Protoss player will lose a fight pretty hard, but not take any real damage because of cannons at their expansions, and having 28 gateways warping in Zealots and HT's for archons. Where as a Terran player will lose the big fight, just as badly, and the Protoss will just lean on them with gateway reinforcements, and the game ends.

 

All in all, I think the changes are designed to make it so that Terran players don't have to say to themselves, "Alright, I have to CRUSH that army. If I barely win, I can't kill him, if I trade, I'm behind, and if I lose the fight, it's game over."

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Not every change that takes place automatically makes something imba.. the point of a balance patch is to.. well.. balance! So the medivac change isn't imba.. it's a balance patch to make sure medivacs dont just die.



1. Conduscious Reactor has literally NEVER been researched in WoL, Blizzard is trying to find ways that justify it's existance.

2. I'm not referring to HoTS balance, only WoL.

3. It's a beta for a reason

4. The patch has only been out for like, a week. Calm thy jimmies.

 

 

 

I suppose I'll try and rationalize Blizzards thinking:

 

I've experimented with the new medivacs quiet a bit. The changes are obviously strong, I haven't worked out the actual math on it, but end game, Terran really should get the upgrade, but that's when terran has like 25% win rate vs Protoss, after 20 minutes, in the end game. It could be to strong early on though, I haven't really experimented with conducious timings, but that could easily be fixed (Conducious reactor requires an armory, or something like that).

 

As far as the speed upgrade goes, I don't think that it's broken at all. The 2 main purposes of the booster, is getting to drop, and getting away. Most decent protoss have static defense set up, or units waiting for drop timings, and going into the mid game, drops are a little more less common, also devoting an HT and 2 cannons to each base shuts it down pretty well. I think the idea is to give terran something that they can actually kind of return home with if they lose a fight in the end game, to maybe be able to come back. I've seen (and experienced) way to often, where the Protoss player will lose a fight pretty hard, but not take any real damage because of cannons at their expansions, and having 28 gateways warping in Zealots and HT's for archons. Where as a Terran player will lose the big fight, just as badly, and the Protoss will just lean on them with gateway reinforcements, and the game ends.

 

All in all, I think the changes are designed to make it so that Terran players don't have to say to themselves, "Alright, I have to CRUSH that army. If I barely win, I can't kill him, if I trade, I'm behind, and if I lose the fight, it's game over."

This is perfect, especially the last phrase. Protoss can warp in, zerg can make a thousand things at once, but terran HAS to win big late-game engagements or have a TON of production structures or the game is over if he loses. 

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Most people I spoke to think the medivac buff is simply ridiculous and totally not needed... but I digress.

 

I never said it wasn't OP, I was mearly trying to justify it. On a similar note, have you seen the new Oracle. Mineral lines beware.

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Not every change that takes place automatically makes something imba.. the point of a balance patch is to.. well.. balance! So the medivac change isn't imba.. it's a balance patch to make sure medivacs dont just die.

This is perfect, especially the last phrase. Protoss can warp in, zerg can make a thousand things at once, but terran HAS to win big late-game engagements or have a TON of production structures or the game is over if he loses. 

You're right, not every change makes something imba but it doesn't automatically make everything balanced either. 

Terran bio is already strong once medivacs hit, especially when army values are lower but now they're even stronger.  Think about Terran in the mid game TvP.  The Terran push at 9:45-10:00 already has the advantage since Protoss won't have any AOE splash damage available unless we're doing some sort of a colossus all in so we'll have a fast robotics bay.  But going HT and storm isn't possible by that time (I've actually been trying over the past week to hit a timing with storm and archons before 10:00 and it's just not possible without sacrificing army numbers which will cause you to lose anyways) and without colossus we have no AOE damage.  Chargelots aren't really effective by that point in the game until we have colossus or storm.  So you take that and add a buff on top of that, it just gets a bit ridiculous.  Obviously strategies will change with new units coming but the core compositions will end up remaining intact with Terran going bio and Protoss going chargelot/archon.  I don't really see Terran using mech. since it will require more time to build their infrustructure and army and Protoss has an advantage in the later stages of the game in TvP. 

For TvZ, I'm not a Zerg player or Terran so I don't know the specifics, but Terran's big problem with going bio was always fungal but fungal was nerfed then you add this buff on top of that. 

It just makes little sense why this buff was put in.  There are other ways that Blizzard could have buffed Terran to be better in the later stages of the game that would of been more efficient.  The point was to buff Terran so they had better chances in late game engagements, instead Terran has a complete advantage in the mid game once medivacs are out and the added help for the later stages of the game.  That's the problem I have with it, Terran doesn't need a buff to their mid game pushes. 

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You're right, not every change makes something imba but it doesn't automatically make everything balanced either. 

Terran bio is already strong once medivacs hit, especially when army values are lower but now they're even stronger.  Think about Terran in the mid game TvP.  The Terran push at 9:45-10:00 already has the advantage since Protoss won't have any AOE splash damage available unless we're doing some sort of a colossus all in so we'll have a fast robotics bay.  But going HT and storm isn't possible by that time (I've actually been trying over the past week to hit a timing with storm and archons before 10:00 and it's just not possible without sacrificing army numbers which will cause you to lose anyways) and without colossus we have no AOE damage.  Chargelots aren't really effective by that point in the game until we have colossus or storm.  So you take that and add a buff on top of that, it just gets a bit ridiculous.  Obviously strategies will change with new units coming but the core compositions will end up remaining intact with Terran going bio and Protoss going chargelot/archon.  I don't really see Terran using mech. since it will require more time to build their infrustructure and army and Protoss has an advantage in the later stages of the game in TvP. 

For TvZ, I'm not a Zerg player or Terran so I don't know the specifics, but Terran's big problem with going bio was always fungal but fungal was nerfed then you add this buff on top of that. 

It just makes little sense why this buff was put in.  There are other ways that Blizzard could have buffed Terran to be better in the later stages of the game that would of been more efficient.  The point was to buff Terran so they had better chances in late game engagements, instead Terran has a complete advantage in the mid game once medivacs are out and the added help for the later stages of the game.  That's the problem I have with it, Terran doesn't need a buff to their mid game pushes. 

Completely agree on the medivac buff, it's simply not needed. I'm a Zerg player, so I can't comment on their power in TvP, but I haven't seen any real issues there. From what I understand, Blizzard's reasoning behind the Medivac buff was to buff bio in late game TvZ, while also promoting more drops. However, the reason Terrans just don't drop that often anymore is because all their attention has to be on their main army. If it's not, they can get fungaled once and lose half their supply. With huge nerfs to the Infestor, I just don't see any need for the medivac buff. 

 

All in all, though, I'm really happy with the patch. The metagame was mind-numbingly stale, and this should be sufficient to shake things up. I really wish I had access to the HotS beta :(

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And me who has to play terran in the SCV rush later today... Jeez I'm gonna suffer XD I've been playing Zerg for so long now I can't even remember what's the basic strat for a TvP x)

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