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Makuly's PvP Guide patch 1.4.3

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Protoss vs Protoss


Pretty one dimensional. The best way to play revolves using the power of warp gates early game and colossi late game.

This is where the most cheese happens (namely cannon rush and proxy 2gates). Early game most importantly you are either

4gating or defending it. The reason for this is because the build order is extremely tight, making only 20 probes,

the timing is super tight as well, as the defender cannot make too many probes or they will die (obviously this

works best if they don't scout it or were tricked (fake gas, etc). It is micro intensive and hard to stop if executed well (for a lesser player)

Although the 4gate has been nerfed, it is still extremely powerful,and many grandmasters still 4gate regularly (MC anyone?).

So, I encourage 4gating in PvP.

General tips:

-Early game - reinforce your army quickly from warpgates, never be supply blocked, and react apprioriately to opponent's build

-Late game you want archons, chargelots, colossi, mothership, and warp prisms for multi harass

-Always get 2 robo and weapons upgrade.

-Always remember to SPREAD colossi to reduce splash damage taken from his colossi and to simultaneously

attack several areas at once

Colossi vs Immortal

Colossi is better than immortals simply because of their range. An upstraight battle of immortal vs colossi, the immortal will win.

However, even with the immortal range buff, it can't even touch colossi, and with proper micro colossi will always win.

Immortals also do not provide splash damage, so the bigger the numbers get, the harder colossi will own immortals.

Immortals cannot break force fields. FF> everything until archons/colossi.


Option 1:Aggressive 4gating

Although this build is extremely one dimensional and lame it is the safest and strongest build in PvP. In theory, any tech dies

to 4gate, assuming both levels have equal levels of micro, or at least takes heavy damage. Defensive 4gating allows punishment

for teching too fast and expansion builds.

The 20 probe 4gate:

12 gate

13 gas

Core-> zealot -> stalker

22 2nd, 3rd, 4th gateway

24 2nd stalker

*20 probes only, 1 zealot, 1 stalker, 2 pylons in base, 3rd and 4th outside

*Only chrono twice on nexus, the rest are spent on warp tech

*The most important part of this build is NOT to forget to chrono your warp tech!!

Execution tips:

When your first stalker pops, go straight to his base. From here you have a 2 options how to place your proxy pylons

1. place 3rd below his ramp and 4th above his ramp (for vision)

2. place 3rd pylon near his base, and 4th below his ramp

If he opens with 3 stalkers, delay your 4gate (there is no way you can beat 3 stalkers with 1 zlot 1 stalker unless his control is terrible,

and you wont even be able to set up your 3rd/4th)

The most important part of the execution is getting high ground vision. Once you have it, quickly warp in zealots and he's done for!

Micro tips:

Focus fire his stalkers with your stalkers. Let the zealots tank, don't control them. Stalker count is extremely important in early game

PvP so try to keep them alive! If anyone masses zealots just laugh and kite them all day :)

Option 2: Rock Paper Scissors!

Now let's assume no one 4gates. Here is a summary of this "coin flip":

Stargate > Robo

Robo > Council

Council > Stargate

More specifically,

Pheonix openings die to blink stalker openings or DT openings

Robo openings kill DT openings and blink stalker openings

Blink stalker/DT openings kill pheonix openings

1Base colossus kills expansion builds

Every build order has a counter, there is nothing solid. No standard BO. Also it is not recommended to expand in PvP,

as almost any 1base all in will kill you.

If you insist on not 4gating, the next safest build you can do is 1-2gate robo opening. This will kill DT/blink builds, deals with

robo openings, with it's only real weakness dying to blind pheonix openings and 4gate if you have poor control.

Afterwards you make an observer, scout, and react accordingly to the opponent's build.

For being able to deal with 2/3 of the tech paths available, Robo opening is not too bad for macro PvP.


-If he somehow let's you scout he's teching off 1-2 gates, aim to end the game instantly with 4gates.

-If you feel he's going to expand, 1base colossus or blink all in. You outright win.

-If you feel he's going to blink all in, get immortals asap, expand after the attack and get a critical mass of colossus

before moving out

-If you see him 4gating, opt a defensive 4gate or 3gate with 2 gas, then tech to colossi.

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I've been thinking about how to restructure the forums, but for now I don't think we have enough activity to justify multiple multiple subforums. If we get enough content to support splitting it up into a separate forum, I can create the forum.

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For me (masters protoss) , i think that most protoss have some form of 4gate safety atm embedded within their builds. Whenever i see a 4gate i feel that i am safe against it with just a 3 gate or 4 gate robo, as i am able to chronoboost a sentry at around 28 supply, BEFORE their 4 gate hits. By the time (if) they are able to bust down the ramp, i will have a chronoboosted immortal out, plus warpgates finished which would fend off any type of 4 gate if microed properly. Keep in mind that 4 gates hit at 6 minutes standard...(i think?). Well this is just speaking from experience, but i may be wrong :P

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Most protoss feel 4gate is cheesy and 'no skill' so they actually don't know how to execute a good 4gate. In actuality, vs a good 4gater the best option is to either 3gate 2gas or 4gate yourself (of course it is map dependent and micro-dependent). So they either don't learn it or don't learn how to properly defend vs it, hence 80%+ of the players on ladder are susceptible to a simple 4gate. Of course it is possible to hold with a robo opening, but again that is very micro-dependent

Here is a replay where I shamelessly 4gated dApollo on EU. he knew it was coming, did a 2gate robo variation feeling confident he was going to stop it, and then lost the game


Edited by vVv HyunA

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THE ONLY thing I know how to do with toss is 4gate. I feel terrible..

then do 1-2gate robo opening into expand :yes:

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startin to feel that a lot of people are bringing back dt's into archon zealot plays...does anything hard counter that build order wise? it seems as though immortals don't do as well, but you have to have robo for the obs...any suggestions?

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