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vVv LordJerith

A word about "competitive settings" in Gears of War 3

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Let me start by saying that my intention in this post is to save some people some time. I’m sure some people will get upset, but I at least want to state that vVv Gaming’ s official position supports MLG’s position:

Our goal is to have MLG Matches use exactly what is played in ranked matches. We already aren’t very far off. The list of feedback MLG sent to Quinn [Delhoyo] yesterday is the list of things we have issues with. The Epic team is working now to resolve them. They are also keeping an eye on MLG Map feedback so that they can do weapon swaps on their end.

I am hoping that everyone can understand that from a spectator’s point of view having “MLG Matches use exactly what is played in ranked matches” is critical to the growth and viewership of the game. We have to think about the spectator’s experience FIRST. How do we get someone who is playing Horde right now to tune into an MLG stream in 2012? THAT is the most important question.

I know the designers at Epic get it. Quinn Delhoyo, level designer for Gears of War at Epic Games, said it best on Twitter: “@mikedloss @arCtyC @Killa_KC Just give the game a shot with an open mind. Those GOWNation rules are a different game.” The last thing we want as we are trying to grow this game’s competive spectator audience is to make the novice error of thinking a few execution scrims with a few players can come close to the millions of data points that Epic will have on the game. We don’t want to create a different game!

So, what will happen with the game? Over the next several weeks, Epic Games will be analyzing the game data they get from the millions of players who play the game. They will use this data to determine what trends are developing on each map. From this, and from the map feedback that MLG provides, Epic will make minor tweaks (or maybe even major ones) based on the evidence they examine from the millions of in-game data points generated by the people playing it (this is important and worth repeating).

Trust the data. Don’t be an elitist. Even worse, don’t be a skill-gap purist. Skill gap is not the only important factor. Again, think of the audience’s experience. For example, there are many things that could be done to professional sports to make them harder, but that does not make them better. Hockey fans didn’t like some of the changes to making goalie pads smaller and nets wider, but hockey survived.

No matter what you hear, just know that we will always support MLG’s goals of making the game a huge success. If you hear rumors or people complaining, just let them talk. Don’t argue with them. Just trust that Gears of War 3 is in good hands.

So, what CAN we do? I told Sundance that vVv Gaming’s official position was to “chose the 11 best game types and maps with default settings.” To which Sundance responded, “Right on the money.”

Based on Sundance’s response, let’s examine what kind of testing we CAN do. There are 10 maps. Ten maps for 3 game types that have the potential of being solid, competitive game types: TDM, KotH and Execution. That is 30 potential combinations. Our job is to find 11 that work the best and really play them for awhile. If you play 1 map per day straight, it will take 30 days to test, and even that pace seems a bit unrealistic, but it’s a good starting point.

More importantly, maybe even the most important thing that you can do is to PLAY the game. Fall into it. Enjoy it. Finish the campaign, play horde, play ranked and learn why the rest of the world loves Gears of War 3. Stop thinking like an MLG player, and start asking, “what makes this game fun for so many?” All players who aspire to be professional gamers must KNOW their audience. In order to know them, you first have to do what they are doing. Dare I say this? Try having fun with the game. I know I am!

Here is a video to help explain things: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/pro-gaming

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I'm having plenty of fun with the game, but the real fun to me always came with playing the best settings in a competitive atmosphere.

I hope it's all worth it in the end.

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The thing that stood out the most to me in that is people need to first start enjoying the game and that right there is a fact because alot of us are mlg players have traveled to events to play a game we enjoy and love but we first like Jerry said need to play horde, we need to play ranked so we can understand why people love it so much and then go from there enjoy it first then eventually we will have the right settings to play

Edited by yahboyreckless

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As far as map weapon swaps go I'll leave that to Epic and MLG to decide but i really dislike both the HB and the retro and hope they get axed at some point, testing will most likely prove these weapons will only slow gameplay.

Edited by vVv Zombeast

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I pretty much mad it a goal to enjoy the game first we have forever and a day to figure out settings and such there is no time limit there isn't any rush so enjoy the magnificent job epic has done with this game and stop the petty complaints and again just enjoy 3 years of hardwork from Epic.

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Agreed, I don't really have much els to say that hasn't been said. The game is only a couple days old what people should be doing is having fun not complaining over settings/getting mad over scrims etc.. there is tons of time to get ready for mlg or competitive gaming at that. Enjoy the game and along the way test default settings/see whats best for the community, no need to rush.

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I think the swaps could be tweaked a bit to make gameplay faster. Just as long as Retro and Sawed off are gone, im ok. Those 2 weapons are really OP and frustrating when a whole team has them. The hammerburst is bad too, but some people like it. i personally think the best option is the Lancer, because its the least OP and it has the chainsaw, the hook of GoW.

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I'm giving myself some time to play the game before I think too hard on the competitive side. I know that Turtle and I will be playing the campaign tonight, and I will probably try to do some achievement hoarding before I really think hard about the MLG side of Gears.

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Makes perfect sense to me. I think it is sad how very little amount of people that played gears even had a clue it had a competitive side too it.

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Thanks for the info real helpful can't wait for mlg gow3 i think its awesome how epic and mlg are working together to make the best competitive gaming

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I can see where wanting to use all of the starting weapons is good for the fan base; the retro makes for "new an exciting" ways to kill someone and the HB takes "skill" to aim and a fast trigger finger to shoot. buutttttttttttttttt as of now they are just waayyy to powerful for any competitive play, they will greatly decrease the skill gap and turn gears of war in A) push an blindfire retro fight at a power weapon or B) get a kill/PW and sit back with HBs and let the other team try and push fast, powerful trigger fingers. Neither will lead to skillful gameplay and/or fun gameplay to watch. With that being said.. The lancer is just as op with the long clip and stopping power but i go back to the fact it is the root of gears of war and well..we need a rifle. I am more than down to have MLG use these guns, just really really reallllllllllyyyyyy wish Epic would turn down the dps on them.

Now onto the weapon swaps. I have ran countless scrims with the default settings and found only ONE problem and that is the idea of teams 4 pushing weapons such as boomshot in execution, 3 kills of 4 people just isnt that fun to play and watch. I LOVE having to push different parts of the maps different rounds because of the weapons swapping in and out and creates ALOT of openings for multiple strats/pushes/etc. It also gives viewers something different to watch besides having to watch everyone go to the same spots on the maps every round. As for the heavy weapons coming into play, I see nothing wrong with it. If you cant dodge a mortar that is really loud when shot and completely obvious to where it is going to land... then well you probably deserve to die anyway. Same goes for OneShot. The Ink is a little much when it comes to how long the stun is and how easy to just blindfire it at someone but is manageable and well the other two nades work fine.

My conclusion to keep default settings(maybe add a explosive to balance out maps with booms on them) and play with lancer/gnasher start until the other two rifles are balanced.

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I havnt played enough to accuratly comment on the maps/gametypes but i completely agree that we should use the default settings. I see nothing wrong with seeing a mortar or a mulcher in mlg play. Theyre both extremely slow weapons and are easy to dodge/counter but are fun to watch from the spectators point of view. I do agree that some changes do need to be made about the hammerburst and retro lancer. Theyre both wayyy too powerful. I also think the regular lancer has alittle too much stopping power but thats just me. And last but not least (im surprised someone hasnt commented on this already) they need to make it so whrn you shooy someone revving a chainsaw, the chainsawer is actually stunned instead of just letting them run through bullets chainsaw ready and chainsawing someone.

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So far from what iv seen Gears3 seems to be a great game. Im not being a gears player normally, but gears3 is deff a really sick game and I hope it goes MLG.

I dont understand these couple of things though...One thing is why is the hammerburst is the only 1 with the ads. Also it seems slightly overpowered.

Another thing is the sawed off -___- im not gonna get into that but uk my point. The last thing is people that charge with chainsaws... Idk it seems like they have a little lunge and ur bullets dont have stopping power when they charge you.

Just some things i noticed but im just being picky. Great Game though :D

Edited by vVv TRod

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great vid, really makes many valid points. designing games to be watched rather then played will be hard i think, because companies make games for the 12 year old with birthday money, not the pro gamer and fans. I think Epic is doing a fantastic job watching, listening and learning from the community, I wish they had a spectator mode, which would be vital for someone to actually watch :dash2: . hopefully they add it in the tu. great topic Jerry, cant wait to see the settings finalized

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There needs to be changes to the settings cause using the map defaults is not going to work at all for most maps. There is no incentive to make a push on several of the main multiplayer maps with the default settings. For example, I just got done doing a GB match with JayC and Metaphor and on Checkout it was a complete camp-fest until one of the teams got a down on someone and after the kill was gotten it went back to campping until the time ran out cause of the stupid man-up rule.

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I can see where wanting to use all of the starting weapons is good for the fan base; the retro makes for "new an exciting" ways to kill someone and the HB takes "skill" to aim and a fast trigger finger to shoot. buutttttttttttttttt as of now they are just waayyy to powerful for any competitive play, they will greatly decrease the skill gap and turn gears of war in A) push an blindfire retro fight at a power weapon or B) get a kill/PW and sit back with HBs and let the other team try and push fast, powerful trigger fingers. Neither will lead to skillful gameplay and/or fun gameplay to watch. With that being said.. The lancer is just as op with the long clip and stopping power but i go back to the fact it is the root of gears of war and well..we need a rifle. I am more than down to have MLG use these guns, just really really reallllllllllyyyyyy wish Epic would turn down the dps on them.

Now onto the weapon swaps. I have ran countless scrims with the default settings and found only ONE problem and that is the idea of teams 4 pushing weapons such as boomshot in execution, 3 kills of 4 people just isnt that fun to play and watch. I LOVE having to push different parts of the maps different rounds because of the weapons swapping in and out and creates ALOT of openings for multiple strats/pushes/etc. It also gives viewers something different to watch besides having to watch everyone go to the same spots on the maps every round. As for the heavy weapons coming into play, I see nothing wrong with it. If you cant dodge a mortar that is really loud when shot and completely obvious to where it is going to land... then well you probably deserve to die anyway. Same goes for OneShot. The Ink is a little much when it comes to how long the stun is and how easy to just blindfire it at someone but is manageable and well the other two nades work fine.

My conclusion to keep default settings(maybe add a explosive to balance out maps with booms on them) and play with lancer/gnasher start until the other two rifles are balanced.

Exactly

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All I want to say is I really hope they make the lancer weaker and then for MLG no retro or hb and no saw off sg....also i think they need to mkae the shotty have 24 shots but hopefully everything goes well or I might cry

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All im saying is if im allowed to use the hammerburst, there is nobody that will be able to get close enough to blindfire me. As for nerfing anything I think the strength of the weapons are fine. The weapons are purposely strong so one weapon will beat the next

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My only suggestion for the swaps would be an obvious one

REMOVE THE UNCLE BUCK (Sawed-Off)

Gracias :3

And that video was very interesting, those are all legitimate reasons why E-Sports in NA is like how I put my Gears 2 in the microwave XD

Edited by vVv Dream

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