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@  Tahvvy : (18 May 2013 - 03:20 AM) @CallMeCoach bye bye
@  PMS Tenshi : (18 May 2013 - 03:11 AM) Cya!
@  PMS Tenshi : (18 May 2013 - 03:11 AM) Oh. Maybe the member is right. I'm "Active Member".
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 03:11 AM) I'm about to crash out guys and gals! Have a good night, catch everyone later today :)
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 03:10 AM) Guess I was misinformed! Lol oh well, becoming a member is the goal, so I shall be patient :)
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 03:09 AM) Oh, that's the only way? A member told me that when I hit 75 posts I could?
@  PMS Tenshi : (18 May 2013 - 03:08 AM) Become a member. :P
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 03:06 AM) Tenshi, how do I change my title from "Active Forum Contributor"??
@  Tahvvy : (18 May 2013 - 03:04 AM) hey look what i got for my punchcard for xbox rewards, http://gyazo.com/7ef...515c51d61046cc8
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 03:03 AM) Buzz was watching Netflix when I got off about 30 min ago
@  PMS Tenshi : (18 May 2013 - 03:01 AM) Doom and Jerith, no. They're more than likely asleep. Buzz MIGHT be on xbox.
@  Tahvvy : (18 May 2013 - 03:01 AM) does anyone know if Doom, Jerith, Pherzgul, or Buzz is online?
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 02:56 AM) http://www.vvv-gamin...iping-division/
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 02:56 AM) Following this, is a link to a thread I posted about it, check out some of the feedback...
@  PMS Tenshi : (18 May 2013 - 02:55 AM) Talk to Doomhammer and maybe Shadow about it and see what they think. Get some honest feedback. It's the only way you'll know.
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 02:54 AM) I've done a lot of competitive sniping, so I would help anyone who wanted to get involved, but staff would have to approve first
@  PMS Tenshi : (18 May 2013 - 02:54 AM) A CoD division within a division is highly unlikely.
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 02:53 AM) However, they're most likely not going to endorse that as a division of vVv within CoD division
@  CallMeCoach : (18 May 2013 - 02:52 AM) I'm sure vVv would have no problem with a team of members/applicants competing in sniping tournaments on 360icons, SLB, etc!
@  Aka Fhrosty : (18 May 2013 - 02:51 AM) What about the possibility of starting one?

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Gamers beware the danger of "skill-based gaming"


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30 replies to this topic

#1 vVv Doomhammer

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:44 PM

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Gamer Beware: The Failure Known as "Skill-Based Gaming
By Jerry "LordJerith" Prochazka


Overview of skill-based gaming: What is skill-based gaming? Skill-based gaming is a legal term used to define a type of gaming which you or I would probably call gambling, but because it is based on "skill" and not "luck," it does not meet the legal definition of gambling. Basically, in skill-based gaming, you or I would deposit money into an account, place a wager, and play the game, and the winner takes all. Funny, to me, that sounds like gambling.

The Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (H.R.4411) basically legalized skill-based gaming, and some would argue, defined "gambling" too narrowly. I won't bore you with the details as to how and why it was passed, but feel free to look it up if you want more information on this law.

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"This is not illegal?"


Various businesses have cropped up surrounding skill-based gaming. Many of these have already failed. One notable example is bringit.com, which has now rebranded itself as some sort of social gaming site. Some of the remaining players in this field are VirginGaming, Galaxy4Gamers, GamerSaloon, and BeyondGaming. Virgin Gaming, probably the most publicized of the group, recently made the 10 Games Businesses That Are Doomed, coming in at number 4, in a recent Kotaku article.

In the article, author Nicholas Lovell quotes Tom Jubert of the GameShadow blog, stating: "Gambling works because it's based on luck. No matter how aware of the growing hole in our pockets, we keep playing because we're addicted. We're addicted to the chance we might win big with the next set of cards."

Lovell goes on to add, "In an FPS [or sports game], as some investors may not realize, success is heavily based on skill [or the quality of your internet connection]. That means if you're a loser, you're a loser - there's no chance of ever making it big. As a result, the weaker players don't bother, while the stronger have no one to compete against."

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"I can smell the noob in the water."


With all this being said, however, I want you to know that I'm not here to discuss the obvious
reasons that this business model may fail. I'm indifferent about their existences as a business, and I do agree with the Kotaku article and others that these models will probably fail. I actually want to discuss why skill-based gaming is bad for competitive gaming (or if you prefer the term, eSports). I think it was best said by Sundance DiGiovanni, CEO of Major League Gaming, "I'm not a fan. These sites lead to predatory behavior by players, and they are not in the spirit of competitive gaming or sport."

From my own personal experience, I have found that these sites do a poor job of verifying that players are 18 or older, do not adequately warn players of how important internet connectivity plays into match outcomes, and generally look to capitalize on bullshit, testosterone-charged bravado. The real danger of these sites is that it would be very easy for someone to confuse one of these skill-based gaming sites (which again I remind you are nothing but gambling sites that are exploiting a loophole in the law) for the legitimate activities of competitive gaming (eSports) that go on at the World Cyber Games, Major League Gaming, Devastation and other legitimate gaming competitions.

It's important for anyone interested in competitive gaming and eSports to educate gamers and those who are interested in competition. Skill-based gaming has nothing to do with competitive gaming and eSports. Competitive gaming is about a level playing field. It is an organized, competitive, entertaining, and skillful activity requiring commitment, strategy, and fair play, in which a winner can be defined by objective means. By today's technology, this can only occur at a LAN setting. Online gaming, specifically skill-based gaming, has too much potential for cheating and other unsportsmanlike conduct.

Which brings me to another point: sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is an attitude that strives for fair play, courtesy toward teammates and opponents, ethical behavior and integrity, and grace in victory or defeat. Sportsmanship expresses an aspiration that the activity will be enjoyed for its own sake. You probably know the well-known sentiment by sports journalist Grantland Rice, that it's "not that you won or lost but how you played the game." This is quite different than skill-based gaming (again, you can dress it up how you want, but at the end of the day, it really is gambling).

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"Hey Mom, I'm making the big bucks."


My nightmare scenario: the day a 16-year-old comes home to a weeping mother who has
discovered that her child has lost $200 because he had access to her bank card. In this scenario, it will be very easy for skill-based gaming to be confused with competitive gaming. This is one nightmare I'd like to avoid, I encourage gamers (especially those that are fans of competitive gaming) to not lay down and just sleep on this issue. If you are passionate about competitive gaming at all, I advise you to avoid these sites and leave them to adults who are probably terrible at most video games anyway, and let them quietly have their bets.

Now, if we could just get them to bet on actual matches. . . wait. . . never mind.

Jordan "Doomhammer" Kahn
President
Doomhammer@vvv-gaming.com

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#2 vVv Blazek

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:56 PM

LOVE IT!

...now just gotta wait on the drama train to arrive at the station :D


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#3 Dan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:16 PM

This was a damn fine read. Galaxy4gamers seems stupid anyway.
Posted ImageOnly one willing to risk going to far,
can possibly know how far one can go.
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#4 SlimCrim

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:16 PM

Good looking out.

We need to stay as far away from these shenanigans as possible.
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#5 Sumer

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:41 PM

Good read. I hope someone puts a stop to the exploits of a lot of those sites soon, or something is passed to make it more difficult for them to take advantage of people.

#6 vVv LordJerith

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:51 PM

LOVE IT!

...now just gotta wait on the drama train to arrive at the station :D


Would it be too much to hope that these ships "pass quietly in the night?"
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#7 vVv Blazek

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 04:12 PM

Would it be too much to hope that these ships "pass quietly in the night?"


you can hope but once one of them catches wind you know the flames will explode.

would be funny if it just passed like nothing happened. XD


PSN: Fayt87 GT: vVv Blazek Steam: vVv Blazek
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#8 vVv LordJerith

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 04:14 PM

you can hope but once one of them catches wind you know the flames will explode.

would be funny if it just passed like nothing happened. XD


So far so good. . .
LordJerith
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Owner, vVv Gaming
Entertain.Educate.Dominate

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#9 Akbulut

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:00 PM

Great read. I don't know anyone that has used these websites but I know I never would purely due to being paranoid about losing out on money when I did not deserve to.

#10 The Turtle

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:18 PM

Great article. The trolls will come...
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#11 Advocate

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:46 PM

Great read. Glad I don't know anyone dumb enough to do this crap.

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#12 Nucstorm

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:50 AM

Great read, I never knew about some of those sites. Very informational article!

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#13 Time

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:54 PM

I doubt these types of websites will survive very long unless they move toward having more standard tournaments with entrance fees, and even then they may not be that successful in the long run. Unlike poker, where it is easy to blame your losses on luck, bad players will quickly realize that they are bad and stop playing.

#14 NooG

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 01:14 PM

good read
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#15 Casboose

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 08:55 PM

Hahah nice thread
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#16 Noxie

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:57 AM

Basically agree with time. There is no "luck" in these type of situations, and because of that scape goat alone I think these will fade out more and more.

#17 AfterMath

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:57 PM

Love it!!XD
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Haters gonna hate(you know who you are:D).

#18 MLG_ShocKeR

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 01:00 PM

That was a great read. :) Never knew of such gaming laws, thanks for the education.
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#19 PreTenD

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 01:38 PM

I was ignorant to these websites. I hope it stays that way for most people. I really enjoyed this article though.
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#20 schillez

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 12:45 PM

Good read, I really don't see a market for this anyways. It needs to be an event, like you said theres too many other factors that people resort to when there is money on the line. Host-booter/ipflood/connection/cheats/host advantage all have a huge impact on what the outcome will be.




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